Spiritual Intercourse

Osho, in the incarnation of Rama, just as Ahalya’s stone‑like personhood waited for Rama and, from stone, Ahalya was restored, the Bhagavata also mentions that in Krishna’s incarnation Lord Krishna had union with Kubja. That may have been his biological need, but does it carry a spiritual meaning as well? What is it? Please clarify.

Not everything in life happens all the time; there are moments one must wait for; there is time whose coming must be watched for; there are occasions for which one has to pause. It is necessary to see this in many, many dimensions. A woman lying there like a stone... No, I would say she must have become stone; becoming stone is the poet’s imagination. But a woman who will blossom only through Rama—and only by Rama’s touch—will remain stone until Rama meets her. It is not that someone was literally lying there like a rock. That is the poet’s device, a way of speaking, his metaphor. But a woman who can bloom and become alive and conscious only through Rama’s touch—anyone else’s touch will leave her inert. The heart of the story is just this: each person has their own waiting. Each has their own awaiting. And until the…

Osho, Krishna’s relationship with Draupadi would have been platonic love. Now, the Bhagavata mentions—and when we spoke in Ahmedabad about Krishna you said—that even though the seed was expended, the union of Vasudeva and Devaki was a spiritual union, and that is why we received Krishna. But Krishna had sixteen thousand, or the eight principal queens—however one may put it—and the relationships he had with them; yet the sons of both Krishna and Rama were not so gifted. From this, can it be concluded that Rama or Krishna did not have spiritual intercourse with their wives at all?

Two things should be understood here. First, by “spiritual intercourse” I do not mean that I am condemning physical intercourse. By spiritual intercourse I simply mean that not only the bodies of two persons have met; their souls have met as well. What is born of the meeting of bodies cannot attain the heights that what is born of the meeting of souls can attain. I regard Krishna’s birth as the fruit of spiritual intercourse; I regard Christ’s birth the same way. That is why those who understood Christ could say that Christ was born and yet Mary remained a virgin, remained a maiden—because on the bodily plane there was no lust and no deep desire. The union happened on the plane of the soul; the body followed like a shadow. Hence the shadow bears no responsibility. But your question is certainly important: then what of the children of Krishna…

Questioner; legend has it that ahilya, a woman turned into stone, had waited long enough for the coming of rama to resurrect her, and that another ordinary woman, kubja, persuaded krishna to make love to her. Do these stories have some spiritual significance?

Everything in existence happens in its own time, a time for which one has to wait with tremendous patience. Everything has its season; nothing happens out of season. Time and occasion have great importance in life. And it is necessary to go into it from different angles. I don't believe that Ahilya had actually turned into stone; this is just a poetic way of saying that she lived a stony life, a dull and dreary life until she met Rama whose love transformed her life. It is possible a woman will come to her flowering only through a particular man like Rama, and that she will patiently wait for such a man to come into her life. It is a poetic metaphor to say that Ahilya had turned into stone. It means to say that with the right opportunity, with real love, even stone comes alive. It also says that…

Questioner: you said in the course of a discussion of krishna at ahmedabad that the intercourse that vasudeo had with his wife devaki was not just sexual, but was a spiritual intercourse and that is why a person like krishna was born. In view of it one wonders why the sons of rama and krishna were not as talented and brilliant as their parents. Can it be said that rama and krishna did not have spiritual intercourse with their wives?

In this connection, two things have to be understood. When I talk of spiritual intercourse between two lovers it does not mean that I am condemning sexual intercourse. By spiritual intercourse I mean that when two persons, a man and a woman, make love, they meet not only on the physical plane but at the spiritual level too. A child born out of mere physical coitus cannot reach to that height of excellence one born out of spiritual intercourse can. I take Krishna to be a child of spiritual intercourse. That is why people who knew Jesus could say that his mother Mary remained virgin even after giving birth to Jesus. Though Mary and Joseph must have made love physically, it is true that the intercourse was much more spiritual than physical. Their desire for sex was not that strong. The physical part of it was like the shadow of…