Gunasthana

Osho, after attaining the thirteenth gunasthana, can one still fall from it? Has anyone ever fallen from it?

No, having reached the thirteenth gunasthana no one has ever fallen, nor can one fall. Then the question arises: what is the need of the fourteenth? If there is no return from the thirteenth, if there is no possibility of falling from it, what is the distance between the thirteenth and the fourteenth? One does not fall from the thirteenth gunasthana, but one may, if one wishes, stop at the thirteenth. Greatly compassionate beings have stopped there. For those who stop at the thirteenth gunasthana, the Buddhists have the precise word: “Bodhisattva.” They said, “We will not enter the fourteenth. If we enter the fourteenth, the body will drop. If the body drops, we will no longer be of any use to anyone; relationships will be severed.” Among the Buddhists there is a story that when Buddha reached the gate of heaven, of moksha, the gate opened and he stood…

For some moments it may seem—‘I am a siddha.’ There is no difference between a siddha and this state so far as the clarity of water is concerned. The only difference: with a siddha, no matter how you jump and splash, the water cannot be muddied. Here it can. From the shore, the two look alike. One in Upshanta-moha will look just like a siddha outwardly. Ordinary people cannot tell; but he himself can tell—the distortion can still arise. The snake can raise his hood one last time. The twelfth: Kshina-moha—the total destruction of the passions. Not like debris settled at the bottom; rather, debris has been removed from the stream—utter purity. Yet Mahavira still calls this the twelfth. His mathematics is exact. The thirteenth: Sayogi-kevali Jina. Mahavira says: everything is complete, but there is still relation with the body—still a conjunction with the body.

Osho, the fall of ordinary people seems understandable. But how is it that even someone who walks the path of renunciation, dispassion, austerity, and sadhana—who has come close to the destination—can still fall into the abyss?

The ordinary person cannot really fall. Where would he fall? One who walks on level ground—even if he stumbles, where is there to fall? Only the one who tries to climb the mountain peaks can fall. To fall you need a summit. And near the summits lie hidden ravines and chasms. On level ground, on the royal road, even if someone falls, what kind of fall is it? He is already fallen. The ordinary person never becomes “fallen,” because there is nowhere left to fall. So when you say the fall of the ordinary is understandable—you have not understood. How is the ordinary to fall? He lives at the point below which no further decline is possible. He lives at zero degrees, at the very bottom. He has made the ravine itself his home. Only the extraordinary fall—those who undertake the ascent to the peaks; who strive for heights; who…

Osho, if a person situated in the fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh chakras is reborn after death, what will be their corresponding cyclic status? Which embodied people attain the disembodied higher realms? For the final attainment, does a disembodied being have to take a human body again?

One whose fifth body has become active goes beyond the deva-yonī as well. The fifth body is the atma-body, the soul-body. And at the level of the fifth body, activity and awareness mean the same thing, because no one can reach the fifth without awareness. There, activity and awareness are simultaneous. Up to the fourth body, one’s journey can happen even while asleep. If one awakens, the journey changes toward the deva-yonī; if one remains asleep, the journey goes toward the pret-yonī. With the fifth body, activity and awareness are one and the same, because it is the soul-body; without awareness there is no meaning to “soul.” The very meaning of soul is consciousness. Therefore another name for soul is consciousness. There is no place for unconsciousness there. So from the fifth body onwards, the two are the same; but before the fifth, the two paths diverge. Up to the…