Taking refuge in desire that cannot be filled, adorned with hypocrisy, pride, and arrogance।
Deluded, they clutch false tenets, and act with impure vows।। 10।।
Embracing immeasurable anxieties that endure until their ruin।
Holding the enjoyment of desire as supreme—“this alone is all,” they conclude।। 11।।
Bound by hundreds of fetters of hope, devoted to desire and wrath।
They strive, for sensual indulgence, to amass wealth by unjust means।। 12।।
Geeta Darshan #5
Available in:
Read in Original Hindi (मूल हिन्दी)
Sutra (Original)
काममाश्रित्य दुष्पूरं दम्भमानमदान्विताः।
मोहाद्गृहीत्वासद्ग्राहान्प्रवर्तन्तेऽशुचिव्रताः।। 10।।
चिन्तामपरिमेयां च प्रलयान्तामुपाश्रिताः।
कामोपभोगपरमा एतावदिति निश्चिताः।। 11।।
आशापाशशतैर्बद्धाः कामक्रोधपरायणाः।
ईहन्ते कामभोगार्थमन्यायेनार्थसंचयान्।। 12।।
मोहाद्गृहीत्वासद्ग्राहान्प्रवर्तन्तेऽशुचिव्रताः।। 10।।
चिन्तामपरिमेयां च प्रलयान्तामुपाश्रिताः।
कामोपभोगपरमा एतावदिति निश्चिताः।। 11।।
आशापाशशतैर्बद्धाः कामक्रोधपरायणाः।
ईहन्ते कामभोगार्थमन्यायेनार्थसंचयान्।। 12।।
Transliteration:
kāmamāśritya duṣpūraṃ dambhamānamadānvitāḥ|
mohādgṛhītvāsadgrāhānpravartante'śucivratāḥ|| 10||
cintāmaparimeyāṃ ca pralayāntāmupāśritāḥ|
kāmopabhogaparamā etāvaditi niścitāḥ|| 11||
āśāpāśaśatairbaddhāḥ kāmakrodhaparāyaṇāḥ|
īhante kāmabhogārthamanyāyenārthasaṃcayān|| 12||
kāmamāśritya duṣpūraṃ dambhamānamadānvitāḥ|
mohādgṛhītvāsadgrāhānpravartante'śucivratāḥ|| 10||
cintāmaparimeyāṃ ca pralayāntāmupāśritāḥ|
kāmopabhogaparamā etāvaditi niścitāḥ|| 11||
āśāpāśaśatairbaddhāḥ kāmakrodhaparāyaṇāḥ|
īhante kāmabhogārthamanyāyenārthasaṃcayān|| 12||
Translation (Meaning)
Questions in this Discourse
First question:
Osho, yesterday’s sutra said that those of demoniac nature say the world is without wonder and altogether false. Science certainly tended to think that there is no mystery in the world, but it does not say the world is false. Please explain.
Osho, yesterday’s sutra said that those of demoniac nature say the world is without wonder and altogether false. Science certainly tended to think that there is no mystery in the world, but it does not say the world is false. Please explain.
Only if you understand Krishna’s intent quite deeply will it be clear why he says that those of demoniac nature consider the world devoid of mystery and false. Ordinarily it is the religious, those of divine nature, who call the world maya, call it false. So the matter looks a little tangled. But the intentions behind the two are different.
When Shankara or other Advaitins call the world maya or untrue, their intention is simply this: there is something truer than this world. It is a relative statement. This world alone is not the truth; there is something more true than this world. And so that we may move toward the search for that “more true,” they call this world false. The only purpose of declaring this world false is that we not take it to be the truth and get entangled in seeking it. Truth is hidden elsewhere. Only when we take this to be untrue will we set out in search of that truth.
But here Krishna is saying that those of demoniac nature call the world false. The purpose of this statement is entirely different. They do not call the world false because there is some other world that is true; they say there is no truth at all. Therefore whatever is, is false. Grasp this difference clearly.
Shankara says the world is mithya, untrue, maya—because truth is elsewhere, and in comparison with that truth this is false. Those of demoniac nature say the world is false because there simply is no truth. It is not false by comparison with something, for there is no truth at all; therefore whatever is, is false. Their intent in saying so is worth understanding.
If you declare the world untrue and there is no truth at all, then no value, no goal, no destination remains in life; then there can be no distinction between good and bad.
If in a dream you see yourself as a saint or you see yourself as a sinner—what difference does it make? Both are dreams. If in a dream you kill someone or in a dream you save someone—what difference does it make? Both are dreams. There can be no value-difference between two dreams. A value-difference can exist between truth and dream. But if both are dreams, then there is no difference at all.
A person of demoniac nature holds that all this is untrue. By calling everything untrue he means: this world is a coincidence. This world is not a creation-process. There is no inherent purpose behind it. The world is going nowhere. It has no destination. We are merely accidents. There is nothing here to gain and nothing to lose. Our existence has no value. Our being is meaningless, utterly valueless.
If there is even a little truth in the world, values will be born; then one will have to choose—to leave the untrue and attain the true. Then we will have to journey between untruth and truth; a path of sadhana will be formed. But if everything is untrue—nothing worth gaining, nothing worth losing; the bad man and the good man, the irreligious and the religious, the saint, the ignorant or the knower are all equal—then there is no difference at all.
And if the distinction between good and bad disappears, the kind of solace a person of demoniac nature receives cannot be had any other way. For this is exactly his pain: what if what I am doing is wrong? What if the current I am going against is precisely where the truth is hidden? What if there is some truth hidden in prayer, in worship, in God? If the way I am living is untrue, then I am losing something.
But if everything is untrue, then there is no question of loss and gain. Then even Mahavira is not attaining anything, Buddha is not getting anything; they too are deluded. The one who is accumulating wealth is deluded; the one running after women is deluded; the one running after God is also deluded.
The person of demoniac nature says that whoever is seeking a goal here, whoever is searching for an inherent purpose in life here, whoever thinks that some truth will be found here, immortality will be found, life will be found, some ultimate attainment will happen, liberation will be found—he is in illusion. This whole world is untrue. There is nothing here worth gaining.
Once it is clear that everything is untrue, then sadhana has no meaning in life. Sadhana has meaning only when there is something to choose. Something wrong to be dropped; something right to be grasped. Some direction that is delusive, to which one can turn one’s back; some direction that is right, toward which one can turn one’s face. Some destination to reach, some goal, some star—even if far away—toward which one can walk.
A person of demoniac nature says there is no way to walk here. You are here like an accident. It is a chance event. No one is running the world; no one is thinking the world; there is no consciousness behind it. The world is a chance occurrence. A chance occurrence means it is futile to seek any purpose in it. There is no purpose, no meaning, no value—this is what the person of demoniac nature announces when he says the world is false.
A person of divine nature also calls the world mithya. Here we must keep in mind that sometimes the same statements can carry very different meanings. The statement has little value by itself. The value lies in who utters it. The same statement on Rama’s lips will carry a different meaning; on Ravana’s lips, a different meaning. The words may be identical, but what is the vision behind them?
If Rama says the world is mithya, it means: do not stop here; truth is elsewhere—seek it. If Ravana says the world is mithya, he means: there is nowhere to go; there is no truth at all—so enjoy whatever is here. It is a momentary enjoyment; there is nothing behind it and nothing ahead of it. And do not worry about consequences—because consequences can happen only in a true world; in an untrue world there are no consequences.
I have heard: a man had a dream at night. In the morning when he went toward the market, he was very sad. A friend asked, “Why are you so sad? What’s the matter?” He said, “I had a dream. In the dream I found twenty thousand rupees lying on the road.” The friend said, “What is there to be sad about in that! It was only a dream. Why worry about money from a dream?” The man said, “That is not what bothers me. I told my wife about it, and since morning she has been wailing. She says, ‘Why didn’t you deposit it in the bank right then?’”
Even in a dream our attachment seizes us. Even in what is false, clinging arises. What is not, we still want to secure.
The person of demoniac nature says: those rupees you found in a dream—deposit them anyway. Because the rupees are false, depositing is false, the bank is false, the depositor is false. Not only is the dream false, the dreamer is also false. Enjoy the fun of depositing it. Although it is false, that is better than suffering because you could not deposit it. Both are false. Here pleasure is false, pain is false. Therefore it is a matter of a moment; do whatever seems interesting.
Keep this distinction in mind.
The person of demoniac nature says: do whatever seems pleasurable—everything is false anyway. The person of divine nature says: do not worry about pleasure or pain; care about what is true; leave what is untrue.
For one of divine nature, truth is the touchstone. For one of demoniac nature, pleasure is the touchstone. If everything is false, then there is no way to weigh what is true or false. The only measure left is: what gives pleasure.
Atheists have always advanced one argument; theists also use the same argument—but the purposes of both are very different. The theist says: Why are you running after woman, wealth, status, prestige? All this is false. The atheist also says all this is false. But there is nowhere else to run either. If we drop this falsehood too, there is no truth to hold onto. We can lose the false, but we cannot gain the true—in the atheist’s view.
So what is the point of losing? If a dream can be seen sweetly, it should be seen. Being a dream is not reason enough to renounce it. If truth existed somewhere, we would even drop the dream. But there is no truth anywhere. Therefore there are two kinds of dreams: pleasant and unpleasant. The one who discovers pleasant dreams is clever; the one who remains stuck in unpleasant dreams is foolish. And beyond dreams there is no truth. This is the disposition of one with demoniac nature.
Science certainly agrees with the person of demoniac nature. It agrees for two reasons. First, it says there is no mystery hidden in the world; there is no secret concealed. The world is an open book. And if we cannot read it, it only means we must increase our skill in reading.
Science divides the world into two parts: the known and the unknown. What is unknown today will be known tomorrow; what is known today was unknown yesterday. A day will come when everything will be known; the category of the unknown will be abolished.
Religion divides the world into three: the known, the unknown, and the unknowable. The unknowable is religion’s special category. The unknown can become known; the known can become unknown again—because many truths man once knew were later lost.
Near Kabul, about fifteen years ago, a small device was found. It was hard even to understand what it was. After much investigation it was discovered to be a battery for producing electricity, some five thousand years old. Five thousand years ago someone had discovered a way to generate electricity; it had become known, and later it was lost.
About thirty years ago, maps of the Earth, seven hundred years old, were found in a library in Paris. Those maps show the Earth as spherical, and they also mark America. So the idea that Columbus discovered America is wrong. Long before Columbus, America was marked on a map.
Not only that, the seven-hundred-year-old map is even more astonishing. It is such that it could not have been made without an airplane. Unless the Earth is seen from great height, there is no way to make such a map.
So the map proves not only that America was discovered earlier and then forgotten; it also proves that humans had aircraft. Only then could such a map be made. There is no other way. And that map is ninety percent like the ones we make today. There is only a slight difference.
At first it was thought the discrepancy must be due to errors. Some scientists think it is possible that the Earth itself had differences when that map was made—because the person who made it seven hundred years ago wrote on it that he was copying an older map. So it is more likely that the Earth changed between the time the original was made and now—that is why there are small differences. But it is absolutely clear that without aircraft, without circling the Earth, such a map could not be made.
Hindus have long thought they had pushpaka vimanas. And every people of the world has tales of flying in the sky.
What is known becomes unknown; what is unknown becomes known. Like day and night, this alternation between the known and the unknown goes on. But religion says there is something else beyond both: the unknowable. It never becomes known, nor does it become unknown.
We call that element God. It forever remains unknowable. Even when we know it, we do not know it completely. And the one who knows cannot claim, “I have known.” For an indispensable condition of knowing it is that the knower gets lost in the very act of knowing. Hence there is no one left to make the claim.
The Upanishads say: whoever says “I know,” know well that he knows nothing yet. The very condition of the knower is that he will not be able to say, “I know,” because there is no “I” left there.
Kabir said: I was searching, I searched much, and You were not found. And when You were found, a great difficulty arose, because by then I had already been lost.
If you understand rightly, the union of man and God never really occurs. Because as long as man remains, union with God cannot happen. And when God is revealed, by then man has melted and dissolved in Him. Therefore the event of union does not happen between two. Either man is, or God is.
The American thinker Alan Watts was practicing with a Zen master. The Zen master asked him, “What are you seeking? For what are you meditating?” Alan Watts said, “In search of God.” The Zen master began to laugh. He said, “You are engaged in a very strange task. It will never be completed.”
Alan Watts was astonished. He said, “We thought Eastern people believe this is precisely the work worth doing. What are you saying?” He said, “It cannot be—either you will not remain or God will not remain. But union cannot occur. Either you will be lost and God will remain, or God will be lost and you will remain.”
Those who know Him become emptiness in the knowing. The more they know, the more empty they become. Hence no one is left to make a claim. Therefore that element forever remains unknowable. It is known, and yet it is not known. It is realized, and yet it does not become part of knowledge, it does not become information.
That is why we can impart education in science, but no one can impart education in religion.
If Edison discovers a truth, or Newton discovers one, or Einstein discovers a theory, then no one else needs to discover it again. Once one person has discovered it, it is written in a book; then children keep studying it. What took Einstein years to do, any person can understand in two hours, in an hour. Then even ordinary children lacking brilliance will understand it and keep passing examinations. There is no need to rediscover it. Once science comes to know something, it becomes part of knowledge.
But in religion something very strange happens. Thousands have known God, and yet we cannot put it in a book and make another person know it. Krishna may have known, Buddha may have known, Christ may have known, Mohammed may have known. But that knowing makes no difference to you. You cannot know merely by reading. If you are to know, you will have to pass through the same place where Krishna passes. And until you become like Krishna, until Krishna-consciousness is born within you, you will not know.
To understand Einstein’s Theory of Relativity you need not be Einstein, nor have Einstein’s intellect. No need. Once the theory is known, it becomes part of knowledge. But in religion, even when truths are realized, they never become part of knowledge. They forever remain unknowable.
Therefore science agrees with the person of demoniac nature. Or we can say that the science we have so far works within the orbit of the demoniac. If man evolves further, we will develop a science of the divine as well. Then science will move in a new dimension.
And in another respect too science agrees with the person of demoniac nature. Science also holds that there is no purpose in the world. It is merely an aggregate of events. Therefore prayer and worship are useless. Meditation will achieve nothing. To whom will you pray? There is no one here to listen to prayer. And man is only a compound, an aggregate of certain elements. If we separate those elements, no soul will remain behind.
Science, as it has developed until now, has developed under the aegis of the demoniac nature. In the future the door may open; a science of the divine may also develop. Or you can understand it thus: the knowledge under demoniac nature is called science; the knowledge under divine nature is called religion.
Religion is the science of the inner world, of that realm of mystery which cannot be tested in a laboratory, which can only be discovered within oneself. It is the inward plunge.
Science is the exploration of matter, and religion is the exploration of God.
When Shankara or other Advaitins call the world maya or untrue, their intention is simply this: there is something truer than this world. It is a relative statement. This world alone is not the truth; there is something more true than this world. And so that we may move toward the search for that “more true,” they call this world false. The only purpose of declaring this world false is that we not take it to be the truth and get entangled in seeking it. Truth is hidden elsewhere. Only when we take this to be untrue will we set out in search of that truth.
But here Krishna is saying that those of demoniac nature call the world false. The purpose of this statement is entirely different. They do not call the world false because there is some other world that is true; they say there is no truth at all. Therefore whatever is, is false. Grasp this difference clearly.
Shankara says the world is mithya, untrue, maya—because truth is elsewhere, and in comparison with that truth this is false. Those of demoniac nature say the world is false because there simply is no truth. It is not false by comparison with something, for there is no truth at all; therefore whatever is, is false. Their intent in saying so is worth understanding.
If you declare the world untrue and there is no truth at all, then no value, no goal, no destination remains in life; then there can be no distinction between good and bad.
If in a dream you see yourself as a saint or you see yourself as a sinner—what difference does it make? Both are dreams. If in a dream you kill someone or in a dream you save someone—what difference does it make? Both are dreams. There can be no value-difference between two dreams. A value-difference can exist between truth and dream. But if both are dreams, then there is no difference at all.
A person of demoniac nature holds that all this is untrue. By calling everything untrue he means: this world is a coincidence. This world is not a creation-process. There is no inherent purpose behind it. The world is going nowhere. It has no destination. We are merely accidents. There is nothing here to gain and nothing to lose. Our existence has no value. Our being is meaningless, utterly valueless.
If there is even a little truth in the world, values will be born; then one will have to choose—to leave the untrue and attain the true. Then we will have to journey between untruth and truth; a path of sadhana will be formed. But if everything is untrue—nothing worth gaining, nothing worth losing; the bad man and the good man, the irreligious and the religious, the saint, the ignorant or the knower are all equal—then there is no difference at all.
And if the distinction between good and bad disappears, the kind of solace a person of demoniac nature receives cannot be had any other way. For this is exactly his pain: what if what I am doing is wrong? What if the current I am going against is precisely where the truth is hidden? What if there is some truth hidden in prayer, in worship, in God? If the way I am living is untrue, then I am losing something.
But if everything is untrue, then there is no question of loss and gain. Then even Mahavira is not attaining anything, Buddha is not getting anything; they too are deluded. The one who is accumulating wealth is deluded; the one running after women is deluded; the one running after God is also deluded.
The person of demoniac nature says that whoever is seeking a goal here, whoever is searching for an inherent purpose in life here, whoever thinks that some truth will be found here, immortality will be found, life will be found, some ultimate attainment will happen, liberation will be found—he is in illusion. This whole world is untrue. There is nothing here worth gaining.
Once it is clear that everything is untrue, then sadhana has no meaning in life. Sadhana has meaning only when there is something to choose. Something wrong to be dropped; something right to be grasped. Some direction that is delusive, to which one can turn one’s back; some direction that is right, toward which one can turn one’s face. Some destination to reach, some goal, some star—even if far away—toward which one can walk.
A person of demoniac nature says there is no way to walk here. You are here like an accident. It is a chance event. No one is running the world; no one is thinking the world; there is no consciousness behind it. The world is a chance occurrence. A chance occurrence means it is futile to seek any purpose in it. There is no purpose, no meaning, no value—this is what the person of demoniac nature announces when he says the world is false.
A person of divine nature also calls the world mithya. Here we must keep in mind that sometimes the same statements can carry very different meanings. The statement has little value by itself. The value lies in who utters it. The same statement on Rama’s lips will carry a different meaning; on Ravana’s lips, a different meaning. The words may be identical, but what is the vision behind them?
If Rama says the world is mithya, it means: do not stop here; truth is elsewhere—seek it. If Ravana says the world is mithya, he means: there is nowhere to go; there is no truth at all—so enjoy whatever is here. It is a momentary enjoyment; there is nothing behind it and nothing ahead of it. And do not worry about consequences—because consequences can happen only in a true world; in an untrue world there are no consequences.
I have heard: a man had a dream at night. In the morning when he went toward the market, he was very sad. A friend asked, “Why are you so sad? What’s the matter?” He said, “I had a dream. In the dream I found twenty thousand rupees lying on the road.” The friend said, “What is there to be sad about in that! It was only a dream. Why worry about money from a dream?” The man said, “That is not what bothers me. I told my wife about it, and since morning she has been wailing. She says, ‘Why didn’t you deposit it in the bank right then?’”
Even in a dream our attachment seizes us. Even in what is false, clinging arises. What is not, we still want to secure.
The person of demoniac nature says: those rupees you found in a dream—deposit them anyway. Because the rupees are false, depositing is false, the bank is false, the depositor is false. Not only is the dream false, the dreamer is also false. Enjoy the fun of depositing it. Although it is false, that is better than suffering because you could not deposit it. Both are false. Here pleasure is false, pain is false. Therefore it is a matter of a moment; do whatever seems interesting.
Keep this distinction in mind.
The person of demoniac nature says: do whatever seems pleasurable—everything is false anyway. The person of divine nature says: do not worry about pleasure or pain; care about what is true; leave what is untrue.
For one of divine nature, truth is the touchstone. For one of demoniac nature, pleasure is the touchstone. If everything is false, then there is no way to weigh what is true or false. The only measure left is: what gives pleasure.
Atheists have always advanced one argument; theists also use the same argument—but the purposes of both are very different. The theist says: Why are you running after woman, wealth, status, prestige? All this is false. The atheist also says all this is false. But there is nowhere else to run either. If we drop this falsehood too, there is no truth to hold onto. We can lose the false, but we cannot gain the true—in the atheist’s view.
So what is the point of losing? If a dream can be seen sweetly, it should be seen. Being a dream is not reason enough to renounce it. If truth existed somewhere, we would even drop the dream. But there is no truth anywhere. Therefore there are two kinds of dreams: pleasant and unpleasant. The one who discovers pleasant dreams is clever; the one who remains stuck in unpleasant dreams is foolish. And beyond dreams there is no truth. This is the disposition of one with demoniac nature.
Science certainly agrees with the person of demoniac nature. It agrees for two reasons. First, it says there is no mystery hidden in the world; there is no secret concealed. The world is an open book. And if we cannot read it, it only means we must increase our skill in reading.
Science divides the world into two parts: the known and the unknown. What is unknown today will be known tomorrow; what is known today was unknown yesterday. A day will come when everything will be known; the category of the unknown will be abolished.
Religion divides the world into three: the known, the unknown, and the unknowable. The unknowable is religion’s special category. The unknown can become known; the known can become unknown again—because many truths man once knew were later lost.
Near Kabul, about fifteen years ago, a small device was found. It was hard even to understand what it was. After much investigation it was discovered to be a battery for producing electricity, some five thousand years old. Five thousand years ago someone had discovered a way to generate electricity; it had become known, and later it was lost.
About thirty years ago, maps of the Earth, seven hundred years old, were found in a library in Paris. Those maps show the Earth as spherical, and they also mark America. So the idea that Columbus discovered America is wrong. Long before Columbus, America was marked on a map.
Not only that, the seven-hundred-year-old map is even more astonishing. It is such that it could not have been made without an airplane. Unless the Earth is seen from great height, there is no way to make such a map.
So the map proves not only that America was discovered earlier and then forgotten; it also proves that humans had aircraft. Only then could such a map be made. There is no other way. And that map is ninety percent like the ones we make today. There is only a slight difference.
At first it was thought the discrepancy must be due to errors. Some scientists think it is possible that the Earth itself had differences when that map was made—because the person who made it seven hundred years ago wrote on it that he was copying an older map. So it is more likely that the Earth changed between the time the original was made and now—that is why there are small differences. But it is absolutely clear that without aircraft, without circling the Earth, such a map could not be made.
Hindus have long thought they had pushpaka vimanas. And every people of the world has tales of flying in the sky.
What is known becomes unknown; what is unknown becomes known. Like day and night, this alternation between the known and the unknown goes on. But religion says there is something else beyond both: the unknowable. It never becomes known, nor does it become unknown.
We call that element God. It forever remains unknowable. Even when we know it, we do not know it completely. And the one who knows cannot claim, “I have known.” For an indispensable condition of knowing it is that the knower gets lost in the very act of knowing. Hence there is no one left to make the claim.
The Upanishads say: whoever says “I know,” know well that he knows nothing yet. The very condition of the knower is that he will not be able to say, “I know,” because there is no “I” left there.
Kabir said: I was searching, I searched much, and You were not found. And when You were found, a great difficulty arose, because by then I had already been lost.
If you understand rightly, the union of man and God never really occurs. Because as long as man remains, union with God cannot happen. And when God is revealed, by then man has melted and dissolved in Him. Therefore the event of union does not happen between two. Either man is, or God is.
The American thinker Alan Watts was practicing with a Zen master. The Zen master asked him, “What are you seeking? For what are you meditating?” Alan Watts said, “In search of God.” The Zen master began to laugh. He said, “You are engaged in a very strange task. It will never be completed.”
Alan Watts was astonished. He said, “We thought Eastern people believe this is precisely the work worth doing. What are you saying?” He said, “It cannot be—either you will not remain or God will not remain. But union cannot occur. Either you will be lost and God will remain, or God will be lost and you will remain.”
Those who know Him become emptiness in the knowing. The more they know, the more empty they become. Hence no one is left to make a claim. Therefore that element forever remains unknowable. It is known, and yet it is not known. It is realized, and yet it does not become part of knowledge, it does not become information.
That is why we can impart education in science, but no one can impart education in religion.
If Edison discovers a truth, or Newton discovers one, or Einstein discovers a theory, then no one else needs to discover it again. Once one person has discovered it, it is written in a book; then children keep studying it. What took Einstein years to do, any person can understand in two hours, in an hour. Then even ordinary children lacking brilliance will understand it and keep passing examinations. There is no need to rediscover it. Once science comes to know something, it becomes part of knowledge.
But in religion something very strange happens. Thousands have known God, and yet we cannot put it in a book and make another person know it. Krishna may have known, Buddha may have known, Christ may have known, Mohammed may have known. But that knowing makes no difference to you. You cannot know merely by reading. If you are to know, you will have to pass through the same place where Krishna passes. And until you become like Krishna, until Krishna-consciousness is born within you, you will not know.
To understand Einstein’s Theory of Relativity you need not be Einstein, nor have Einstein’s intellect. No need. Once the theory is known, it becomes part of knowledge. But in religion, even when truths are realized, they never become part of knowledge. They forever remain unknowable.
Therefore science agrees with the person of demoniac nature. Or we can say that the science we have so far works within the orbit of the demoniac. If man evolves further, we will develop a science of the divine as well. Then science will move in a new dimension.
And in another respect too science agrees with the person of demoniac nature. Science also holds that there is no purpose in the world. It is merely an aggregate of events. Therefore prayer and worship are useless. Meditation will achieve nothing. To whom will you pray? There is no one here to listen to prayer. And man is only a compound, an aggregate of certain elements. If we separate those elements, no soul will remain behind.
Science, as it has developed until now, has developed under the aegis of the demoniac nature. In the future the door may open; a science of the divine may also develop. Or you can understand it thus: the knowledge under demoniac nature is called science; the knowledge under divine nature is called religion.
Religion is the science of the inner world, of that realm of mystery which cannot be tested in a laboratory, which can only be discovered within oneself. It is the inward plunge.
Science is the exploration of matter, and religion is the exploration of God.
Second question:
Osho, the asuric (demonic) element of our lives that a man of wisdom can see—how can it become visible to us too? What should we do?
Osho, the asuric (demonic) element of our lives that a man of wisdom can see—how can it become visible to us too? What should we do?
The question is important; it concerns everyone. Whoever seeks even a little transformation in life will have to ponder it deeply.
A man of wisdom perceives the asuric element in our lives. What should we do so that we too can see it?
The first thing is: seek the company of a man of wisdom. Scriptures are not enough, because scriptures are dead. They are precious, but not sufficient. And from a scripture you will read only what you are able to read. You can deceive a scripture; a scripture cannot stop you. You can interpret it, but that interpretation will be your own. The scripture cannot protest that your interpretation is wrong. Meaning and interpretation will be supplied by you. Thus, in your hands, the scripture becomes what you are. However priceless a scripture may be, the moment it lands in a reader’s hands, it becomes shaped by the reader’s mind.
You will read the Bible and the meaning that arises will be the expression of your own psychology. You will read the Gita; the meaning that comes will be yours—it cannot be Krishna’s. However much is hidden in a scripture, it will not be revealed to you.
Seek the living presence of a wise man. For this reason the guru has held such a valuable place in the Eastern tradition. It simply means: seek living truth. You cannot deceive a living presence; you cannot twist him to fit your interpretations. He can stop you; he can alert you where you go wrong.
The very name for the presence of a wise man is satsang—simply, being with one who knows. Many things are transmitted only by contagion; they cannot be “given.” They are not material objects that someone can hand over. By silently being near, slowly their fragrance is transmitted.
So, if you wish to see the asuric element, the first requirement is to find the presence of a wise man; gradually you will get a chance to see through his eyes. By moving, sitting, walking with him, a sense of a new life will arise in you. Only then does comparison become possible. Otherwise how will comparison arise? Where you live, among whom you live, with whom you live—if all are alike, recognition is very difficult.
In a madhouse, all are mad. There, no madman can ever realize that he is mad, because everyone is like him. If a sane person enters such an asylum, he will start doubting himself, because the crowd and the majority will be mad.
This has happened often. That is why we have called Buddha, Christ, Socrates mad. If, in our crowd of madmen, one person becomes sane, suspicion falls on him rather than on us. We are many; our number is large. And number appears very much like truth to us. We weigh everything by numbers: what crores believe must be right. So we crucified Jesus, made Socrates drink poison—thinking, “They have gone mad, unhinged.”
Amid such a crowd, recognition is impossible, because how will comparison arise? It is said: until the camel goes to the foot of the mountain, he never realizes there is something higher than himself; until then the camel is the mountain.
Until you come close to a consciousness totally different from your own, your asuric element will not be visible to you. As soon as you approach him, glimpses begin, because against the opposite background you start to be revealed.
So, seek the presence of a wise man.
Second, whatever the wise have said—the Gita, the Upanishads, Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching, the sayings of Mahavira, the Dhammapada of Buddha, and thousands upon thousands of utterances spread across the earth—do not argue about what they have said; experiment with it. That is the true logic. Do not merely think about it, because how can you think rightly about what you have no experience of? Experiment and see.
Experiment is the only logic. Through experiment you will taste that they are right. Only the taste convinces. And until something contrary to your present state begins to feel right, you will not be able to admit that you are wrong. To see the wrong, comparison is needed.
I have heard: In Akbar’s time a religious man set out on pilgrimage. Those were dangerous days. He had considerable wealth, no wife or children, and he feared for his property. He left it with a trusted friend, saying, “If I return alive, give it back; if not, use it well.” The journey was difficult; in those days many pilgrims never returned.
He went as far as Manasarovar. By fortune he came back alive. The friend had assumed he would never return. When he did, there was a problem. The property was substantial; returning it was difficult for the friend. He denied it. “You never left anything with me! What nonsense! Are you out of your mind?”
There was no witness. The case went to Akbar’s court. Not a single witness; no way to decide. One said, “I left it.” The other said, “He did not.” How to judge?
Akbar consulted Birbal. Birbal asked the man who claimed to have deposited the money, “Is there any witness at all?” He said, “None—except the tree under which I gave him the property. Only that tree could be a witness.” Birbal said, “That will do. Go and summon the tree to court.”
It sounded crazy, but there was no other option. He thought, “Perhaps there is some hidden strategy.” He said, “I will go and pray.”
He left. The other man—who supposedly held the money—sat waiting and waiting. A long time passed. Birbal said, “It’s been a long time. Why hasn’t he returned?” The man blurted, “Sir, that tree is very far away.” Birbal said, “The matter is settled. You took the money; otherwise how would you know how far that tree is!”
We too need such indirect clues within ourselves. Directly there is no way, because as you are, you cannot become other than yourself. Some indirect means is needed.
In the presence of a wise man you begin to receive indirect glimpses; you begin to feel you are wrong. Because the moment you feel the wise man is right, you simultaneously feel, “Then I am wrong.”
And here a very important point must be understood. If you are very clever, you may sit by a wise man and keep thinking, “He is wrong.” That is the only way to protect yourself—there is no other.
That is why people go to gurus and return saying, “I found faults in him.” They have secured their ego. There were only two paths: if the guru was right, they would have to be wrong; and if they insist on remaining as they are, they must prove the guru wrong.
But proving the guru wrong does not harm the guru; you lose an indirect opportunity—for reflection, inquiry, comparison—and it is lost.
If you can find a living wise man, you are fortunate. There is never a shortage of wise men. If you do not find one, your eyes are closed; that is why you do not find. Or you are being clever with yourself, deceiving yourself; that is why you do not find. Otherwise there is no scarcity of the wise. Their number on earth is a constant; it does not diminish. When one wise man leaves, another immediately takes his place.
A Jewish fakir once came to me. He was anxious, troubled. He had wandered much, wishing to tell something to someone, but no one would receive him or believe him. He took sannyas with me, was initiated, began to meditate. Later one day he said, “Now I can tell you.”
He told me: “I had no interest in religion at all; I was not a religious man. More than that, I was explicitly opposed. I never went to the synagogue. I never read the Talmud. When anyone spoke of religion I felt only bored. I never listened to a rabbi or a fakir.”
“One day, on a Jewish holy festival, I was returning home from the market when suddenly I felt restless—compelled—to go to the synagogue. It surprised me too. It was as if someone were pulling me, as if I were helpless. I ran home, picked up my prayer shawl—the garment Jews cover themselves with during prayer.”
This prayer shawl is very precious to Jews. People of other religions could also make use of such a thing. You cover the whole body with a cloth and generate within a humming—Om, or any sound. That hum resonates not only in the body but creates a field under the shawl—an aura around the body. It surrounds you and cuts you off from the ordinary atmosphere of the world. Within that shawl, absorption in prayer is far easier than without such covering.
“He ran home, grabbed the shawl, and reached the synagogue. But it was a festival day; even the most atheistic Jew comes on such a day. It was packed. He had no hope of getting inside. But to his amazement, at the door he was welcomed and seated among honored guests. He was even more bewildered. He covered himself with the shawl and, as soon as he did, he heard…”
This is an incident from about twenty years ago; a year before he came and told me the whole account.
“He heard a voice: ‘You have been chosen! One of the thirty-six has died; you have been chosen in his place.’ He wanted to tell many people: What is this? Who are the thirty-six? Who died? For what have I been chosen? But after that voice his life was transformed.”
Among Jews there is an old doctrine: there are always thirty-six righteous—wise—men alive on earth. Whenever one departs, the remaining thirty-five immediately choose another, so the number thirty-six is always complete.
Every religion has such inner circles, inner secret orders. Their numbers never diminish. They are always present. And whenever a seeker is ready to find them, they themselves begin to seek the seeker.
So there is no need to go to the Himalayas. If the longing is intense, the wise man whose presence you need will be where you are; he will come to you there.
But we make ourselves poor with our own hands. We do not even hold out our hands. Even if gold were raining, our bag would remain closed.
To seek the presence of a wise man you must drop your old habits of self-protection and defense. You must open a little. There is risk, there is danger. But without danger no revolution happens in life.
Then there is the literature of the wise—their utterances, which we call the Vedas. The Veda is not a book; the words of all wise men are the Veda. If we contemplate these words—note, not “think” but “contemplate”—we must clearly understand the difference.
Thinking means: I apply my intellect to decide what is right, what is wrong; I argue for and against. But if I truly had intellect, what need of the Veda would there be? If I already knew right and wrong, I would myself be wise. I do not have that.
Contemplation is quite different. It means to let the words of the wise sink into your heart, to suck their juice, to taste them. Not to weigh whether they are right or wrong—drink them. This is what we call patha—devotional reading.
That is why a man reads the Gita every day. Westerners ask, “What madness is this? Read a book once and be done. Why read it again? What sense in reading it the whole life, every morning? It’s the same book—won’t your mind become dull?” To a point, they are right. Most people’s minds have become dull. But the dullness arises because they do not know the secret of patha. Reading the Gita every morning does not mean ‘reading’ in the usual sense. It is like daily eating, drinking water, breathing—each morning letting the words of the wise be assimilated, to be immersed in them, to throw them into oneself and churn them. For those words will fall within like seeds, and at some right moment—and we do not know when that right moment will come; that is why it is done daily—some day the right moment will arrive and the seeds will land in the right soil. They will sprout. And with that sprouting, for the first time you will begin to see what is asuric and what is divine. Before that, you cannot see.
So there are two means. If you have courage, take refuge in a living wise man. If you are weak, without courage, then take refuge in scripture. This may sound upside down to you. You often think that the strong does not take refuge in anyone. I say to you: if you have strength, go into refuge.
The weak cannot surrender; they fear that if they surrender, another will take possession. That fear belongs to weakness. The powerful surrenders. Only the strong dare to submit; the weak are always scared: “If I place myself in someone’s hands, who knows what will happen?” Only the strong dare: “I have surrendered—now let whatever happens, happen.”
And remember: for the one who gathers the courage to surrender, wise men inevitably appear. Even if you surrender at the feet of a wrong person, if your surrender is unconditional, the wrong person will move aside and the right one will appear. And if you sit before the right person holding yourself back, protecting yourself, then even the right person is the wrong person for you.
If this is not possible—if the mind is too weak—then seek scripture. The guru is for the strong; scripture is for the weak. But even there courage will be needed, because you must give the scripture a chance to enter you, to soak into every pore, to flow with your every breath, to echo in every particle of your being.
When Swami Ram returned from America, Sardar Puran Singh, a great Punjabi thinker, was with him. One night they slept in the Himalayas in a single room—silence all around, Himalayan silence. No village nearby, no sound, no uproar.
Suddenly Puran Singh felt someone was chanting “Ram, Ram.” He could not sleep. He got up, went out on the veranda, looked all around—silence. No one there. His surprise increased when he noticed that outside the sound grew fainter. He went farther; it faded even more. He went down to the gate; it vanished. As he returned, the sound increased. When he came into the room, it was heard again. He was astonished—there was no one there except Ram, who was asleep.
He went near Ram’s cot. The closer he came, the louder the sound. Then he realized something unique was happening: from every limb of Ram’s body, “Ram” was resonating. He put his ear to the feet—there was the sound; to the hands—there was the sound; to the head—there was the sound.
When someone truly remembers, truly does patha—lets the words of the Veda sink in—then every hair begins to reverberate with the same sound. In that resonance you will understand what is asuric and what is divine. Before that, it cannot be understood.
These are the two means. If you have courage, seek a living master; if courage is weak, then the recorded words of the wise, preserved in the scriptures, are your refuge.
Yet in both, courage is necessary, because without refuge there is no way. Somewhere you must lose yourself, let go; somewhere you must set aside your ego. Then, like a flash of lightning, the path becomes visible in the dark; in just that way, the sense of what is divine and what is asuric begins to arise.
And remember: the moment it is perceived—“This is asuric and this is divine”—transformation begins. For once you truly see a tendency is asuric, it becomes impossible to remain in it.
We can live in asuric tendencies only so long as we take them to be divine. We can live in untruth only so long as we take it to be truth. We can live in misery only so long as we have mistaken it for happiness.
When misery is seen as misery, liberation begins. When untruth is known as untruth, revolution begins. When the sense arises, “Our wealth is asuric,” our hands begin to fall away from it. We cling only to what we believe is right. Even if it is wrong, if we think it right, we cling. The moment we understand it is wrong, the loosening begins.
Socrates’ famous saying: Knowledge is virtue!
The moment one truly knows what is right, one begins to do what is right. When people say, “We know anger is bad, but what to do—helplessly we get angry,” I tell them, “You are mistaken; you have the whole thing upside down. You do not know that anger is bad. You have heard it—and you think what is heard is knowledge. If you truly knew anger is bad, then, as it is difficult to put your hand in fire, it would be even more difficult to put your hand into anger—perhaps more difficult, because fire burns only the body; anger scorches you to the core.”
A man of wisdom perceives the asuric element in our lives. What should we do so that we too can see it?
The first thing is: seek the company of a man of wisdom. Scriptures are not enough, because scriptures are dead. They are precious, but not sufficient. And from a scripture you will read only what you are able to read. You can deceive a scripture; a scripture cannot stop you. You can interpret it, but that interpretation will be your own. The scripture cannot protest that your interpretation is wrong. Meaning and interpretation will be supplied by you. Thus, in your hands, the scripture becomes what you are. However priceless a scripture may be, the moment it lands in a reader’s hands, it becomes shaped by the reader’s mind.
You will read the Bible and the meaning that arises will be the expression of your own psychology. You will read the Gita; the meaning that comes will be yours—it cannot be Krishna’s. However much is hidden in a scripture, it will not be revealed to you.
Seek the living presence of a wise man. For this reason the guru has held such a valuable place in the Eastern tradition. It simply means: seek living truth. You cannot deceive a living presence; you cannot twist him to fit your interpretations. He can stop you; he can alert you where you go wrong.
The very name for the presence of a wise man is satsang—simply, being with one who knows. Many things are transmitted only by contagion; they cannot be “given.” They are not material objects that someone can hand over. By silently being near, slowly their fragrance is transmitted.
So, if you wish to see the asuric element, the first requirement is to find the presence of a wise man; gradually you will get a chance to see through his eyes. By moving, sitting, walking with him, a sense of a new life will arise in you. Only then does comparison become possible. Otherwise how will comparison arise? Where you live, among whom you live, with whom you live—if all are alike, recognition is very difficult.
In a madhouse, all are mad. There, no madman can ever realize that he is mad, because everyone is like him. If a sane person enters such an asylum, he will start doubting himself, because the crowd and the majority will be mad.
This has happened often. That is why we have called Buddha, Christ, Socrates mad. If, in our crowd of madmen, one person becomes sane, suspicion falls on him rather than on us. We are many; our number is large. And number appears very much like truth to us. We weigh everything by numbers: what crores believe must be right. So we crucified Jesus, made Socrates drink poison—thinking, “They have gone mad, unhinged.”
Amid such a crowd, recognition is impossible, because how will comparison arise? It is said: until the camel goes to the foot of the mountain, he never realizes there is something higher than himself; until then the camel is the mountain.
Until you come close to a consciousness totally different from your own, your asuric element will not be visible to you. As soon as you approach him, glimpses begin, because against the opposite background you start to be revealed.
So, seek the presence of a wise man.
Second, whatever the wise have said—the Gita, the Upanishads, Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching, the sayings of Mahavira, the Dhammapada of Buddha, and thousands upon thousands of utterances spread across the earth—do not argue about what they have said; experiment with it. That is the true logic. Do not merely think about it, because how can you think rightly about what you have no experience of? Experiment and see.
Experiment is the only logic. Through experiment you will taste that they are right. Only the taste convinces. And until something contrary to your present state begins to feel right, you will not be able to admit that you are wrong. To see the wrong, comparison is needed.
I have heard: In Akbar’s time a religious man set out on pilgrimage. Those were dangerous days. He had considerable wealth, no wife or children, and he feared for his property. He left it with a trusted friend, saying, “If I return alive, give it back; if not, use it well.” The journey was difficult; in those days many pilgrims never returned.
He went as far as Manasarovar. By fortune he came back alive. The friend had assumed he would never return. When he did, there was a problem. The property was substantial; returning it was difficult for the friend. He denied it. “You never left anything with me! What nonsense! Are you out of your mind?”
There was no witness. The case went to Akbar’s court. Not a single witness; no way to decide. One said, “I left it.” The other said, “He did not.” How to judge?
Akbar consulted Birbal. Birbal asked the man who claimed to have deposited the money, “Is there any witness at all?” He said, “None—except the tree under which I gave him the property. Only that tree could be a witness.” Birbal said, “That will do. Go and summon the tree to court.”
It sounded crazy, but there was no other option. He thought, “Perhaps there is some hidden strategy.” He said, “I will go and pray.”
He left. The other man—who supposedly held the money—sat waiting and waiting. A long time passed. Birbal said, “It’s been a long time. Why hasn’t he returned?” The man blurted, “Sir, that tree is very far away.” Birbal said, “The matter is settled. You took the money; otherwise how would you know how far that tree is!”
We too need such indirect clues within ourselves. Directly there is no way, because as you are, you cannot become other than yourself. Some indirect means is needed.
In the presence of a wise man you begin to receive indirect glimpses; you begin to feel you are wrong. Because the moment you feel the wise man is right, you simultaneously feel, “Then I am wrong.”
And here a very important point must be understood. If you are very clever, you may sit by a wise man and keep thinking, “He is wrong.” That is the only way to protect yourself—there is no other.
That is why people go to gurus and return saying, “I found faults in him.” They have secured their ego. There were only two paths: if the guru was right, they would have to be wrong; and if they insist on remaining as they are, they must prove the guru wrong.
But proving the guru wrong does not harm the guru; you lose an indirect opportunity—for reflection, inquiry, comparison—and it is lost.
If you can find a living wise man, you are fortunate. There is never a shortage of wise men. If you do not find one, your eyes are closed; that is why you do not find. Or you are being clever with yourself, deceiving yourself; that is why you do not find. Otherwise there is no scarcity of the wise. Their number on earth is a constant; it does not diminish. When one wise man leaves, another immediately takes his place.
A Jewish fakir once came to me. He was anxious, troubled. He had wandered much, wishing to tell something to someone, but no one would receive him or believe him. He took sannyas with me, was initiated, began to meditate. Later one day he said, “Now I can tell you.”
He told me: “I had no interest in religion at all; I was not a religious man. More than that, I was explicitly opposed. I never went to the synagogue. I never read the Talmud. When anyone spoke of religion I felt only bored. I never listened to a rabbi or a fakir.”
“One day, on a Jewish holy festival, I was returning home from the market when suddenly I felt restless—compelled—to go to the synagogue. It surprised me too. It was as if someone were pulling me, as if I were helpless. I ran home, picked up my prayer shawl—the garment Jews cover themselves with during prayer.”
This prayer shawl is very precious to Jews. People of other religions could also make use of such a thing. You cover the whole body with a cloth and generate within a humming—Om, or any sound. That hum resonates not only in the body but creates a field under the shawl—an aura around the body. It surrounds you and cuts you off from the ordinary atmosphere of the world. Within that shawl, absorption in prayer is far easier than without such covering.
“He ran home, grabbed the shawl, and reached the synagogue. But it was a festival day; even the most atheistic Jew comes on such a day. It was packed. He had no hope of getting inside. But to his amazement, at the door he was welcomed and seated among honored guests. He was even more bewildered. He covered himself with the shawl and, as soon as he did, he heard…”
This is an incident from about twenty years ago; a year before he came and told me the whole account.
“He heard a voice: ‘You have been chosen! One of the thirty-six has died; you have been chosen in his place.’ He wanted to tell many people: What is this? Who are the thirty-six? Who died? For what have I been chosen? But after that voice his life was transformed.”
Among Jews there is an old doctrine: there are always thirty-six righteous—wise—men alive on earth. Whenever one departs, the remaining thirty-five immediately choose another, so the number thirty-six is always complete.
Every religion has such inner circles, inner secret orders. Their numbers never diminish. They are always present. And whenever a seeker is ready to find them, they themselves begin to seek the seeker.
So there is no need to go to the Himalayas. If the longing is intense, the wise man whose presence you need will be where you are; he will come to you there.
But we make ourselves poor with our own hands. We do not even hold out our hands. Even if gold were raining, our bag would remain closed.
To seek the presence of a wise man you must drop your old habits of self-protection and defense. You must open a little. There is risk, there is danger. But without danger no revolution happens in life.
Then there is the literature of the wise—their utterances, which we call the Vedas. The Veda is not a book; the words of all wise men are the Veda. If we contemplate these words—note, not “think” but “contemplate”—we must clearly understand the difference.
Thinking means: I apply my intellect to decide what is right, what is wrong; I argue for and against. But if I truly had intellect, what need of the Veda would there be? If I already knew right and wrong, I would myself be wise. I do not have that.
Contemplation is quite different. It means to let the words of the wise sink into your heart, to suck their juice, to taste them. Not to weigh whether they are right or wrong—drink them. This is what we call patha—devotional reading.
That is why a man reads the Gita every day. Westerners ask, “What madness is this? Read a book once and be done. Why read it again? What sense in reading it the whole life, every morning? It’s the same book—won’t your mind become dull?” To a point, they are right. Most people’s minds have become dull. But the dullness arises because they do not know the secret of patha. Reading the Gita every morning does not mean ‘reading’ in the usual sense. It is like daily eating, drinking water, breathing—each morning letting the words of the wise be assimilated, to be immersed in them, to throw them into oneself and churn them. For those words will fall within like seeds, and at some right moment—and we do not know when that right moment will come; that is why it is done daily—some day the right moment will arrive and the seeds will land in the right soil. They will sprout. And with that sprouting, for the first time you will begin to see what is asuric and what is divine. Before that, you cannot see.
So there are two means. If you have courage, take refuge in a living wise man. If you are weak, without courage, then take refuge in scripture. This may sound upside down to you. You often think that the strong does not take refuge in anyone. I say to you: if you have strength, go into refuge.
The weak cannot surrender; they fear that if they surrender, another will take possession. That fear belongs to weakness. The powerful surrenders. Only the strong dare to submit; the weak are always scared: “If I place myself in someone’s hands, who knows what will happen?” Only the strong dare: “I have surrendered—now let whatever happens, happen.”
And remember: for the one who gathers the courage to surrender, wise men inevitably appear. Even if you surrender at the feet of a wrong person, if your surrender is unconditional, the wrong person will move aside and the right one will appear. And if you sit before the right person holding yourself back, protecting yourself, then even the right person is the wrong person for you.
If this is not possible—if the mind is too weak—then seek scripture. The guru is for the strong; scripture is for the weak. But even there courage will be needed, because you must give the scripture a chance to enter you, to soak into every pore, to flow with your every breath, to echo in every particle of your being.
When Swami Ram returned from America, Sardar Puran Singh, a great Punjabi thinker, was with him. One night they slept in the Himalayas in a single room—silence all around, Himalayan silence. No village nearby, no sound, no uproar.
Suddenly Puran Singh felt someone was chanting “Ram, Ram.” He could not sleep. He got up, went out on the veranda, looked all around—silence. No one there. His surprise increased when he noticed that outside the sound grew fainter. He went farther; it faded even more. He went down to the gate; it vanished. As he returned, the sound increased. When he came into the room, it was heard again. He was astonished—there was no one there except Ram, who was asleep.
He went near Ram’s cot. The closer he came, the louder the sound. Then he realized something unique was happening: from every limb of Ram’s body, “Ram” was resonating. He put his ear to the feet—there was the sound; to the hands—there was the sound; to the head—there was the sound.
When someone truly remembers, truly does patha—lets the words of the Veda sink in—then every hair begins to reverberate with the same sound. In that resonance you will understand what is asuric and what is divine. Before that, it cannot be understood.
These are the two means. If you have courage, seek a living master; if courage is weak, then the recorded words of the wise, preserved in the scriptures, are your refuge.
Yet in both, courage is necessary, because without refuge there is no way. Somewhere you must lose yourself, let go; somewhere you must set aside your ego. Then, like a flash of lightning, the path becomes visible in the dark; in just that way, the sense of what is divine and what is asuric begins to arise.
And remember: the moment it is perceived—“This is asuric and this is divine”—transformation begins. For once you truly see a tendency is asuric, it becomes impossible to remain in it.
We can live in asuric tendencies only so long as we take them to be divine. We can live in untruth only so long as we take it to be truth. We can live in misery only so long as we have mistaken it for happiness.
When misery is seen as misery, liberation begins. When untruth is known as untruth, revolution begins. When the sense arises, “Our wealth is asuric,” our hands begin to fall away from it. We cling only to what we believe is right. Even if it is wrong, if we think it right, we cling. The moment we understand it is wrong, the loosening begins.
Socrates’ famous saying: Knowledge is virtue!
The moment one truly knows what is right, one begins to do what is right. When people say, “We know anger is bad, but what to do—helplessly we get angry,” I tell them, “You are mistaken; you have the whole thing upside down. You do not know that anger is bad. You have heard it—and you think what is heard is knowledge. If you truly knew anger is bad, then, as it is difficult to put your hand in fire, it would be even more difficult to put your hand into anger—perhaps more difficult, because fire burns only the body; anger scorches you to the core.”
The last question: Osho, upon reaching the goal the wise man finds that it is impossible to know the self, because there the knower, the known, and knowledge become one. In that state, why do they still tell us, “Know yourself”? What do they mean by it?
Certainly, in that ultimate state the knower is lost, knowledge is lost, and the known is lost. This trinity dissolves into a single current. Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati—all three disappear; only the ocean remains. The one who went in search is no longer there; that which he went to search for is also no longer there. And yet, something remains. What remains is greater than the three; it is more than the three. What is lost was rubbish. What remains is the very essence.
Still the wise say to you, “Know yourself.” Are they inviting you to be erased?
If it were only erasing, and nothing were gained, the invitation would never be given. From one side, there is disappearing; from the other side, there is being. That which you presently are will fall away, and your real being will remain. Your false, counterfeit “being” will vanish; your eternal substance, your timeless nature, will remain. You will be lost—as you now take yourself to be. And that which you have never known yourself to be, but which you truly are, will abide.
So the wise call you: dissolve, so that you may be. Lose yourself, so that you may be saved. They say: if the drop falls into the ocean, it is lost—if you look from the drop’s side. But where can it be lost? How can being be lost? If you look from the side of being, the drop is not lost; it becomes the ocean. On one side the drop’s smallness is gone; on the other, the ocean’s vastness pours in.
Kabir says: at first I thought that in union the drop fell into the ocean and was lost. That was the first experience—that the drop fell into the ocean and vanished. Later I understood it is the other way around: the ocean fell into the drop and disappeared.
Both statements mean the same. Whether you let a drop fall into the ocean, or the ocean fall into a drop, the same event occurs. Whether you say, “I was lost,” or you say, “The divine was lost in me,” it is the same thing—only two vantage points.
Buddha preferred the first: you will be lost, nirvana will happen, everything will be emptiness. Shankara preferred the second: you will become Brahman; nothing is lost, everything is gained.
Call it shunya (the void) or call it purna (the fullness). Shunya means the drop is gone; purna means the ocean has descended into the drop. Two ways of saying one truth: one via affirmation, the other via negation. Choose whichever is dear to you.
The wise invite you to dissolve because they have known from their own experience that as long as they did not dissolve, suffering remained. When they dissolved, bliss happened.
Your very “existence” as you know it is the thorn. You yourself are the thorn that pricks. And so long as you are, the thorn will go on pricking. You may make a thousand arrangements for happiness; they will fail—because the thorn is you. Prepare as pleasant a bed as you like, build as beautiful a house as you like—the thorn will prick.
Palaces grow larger; misery is not destroyed. Heaps of wealth pile up; misery is not destroyed. Prosperity, fame, renown accrue; misery is not destroyed—if anything, the thorn pricks harder. The more arrangements you make for pleasure, the deeper the thorn hurts. Pleasure creates a contrasting backdrop, and the thorn feels even more painful.
A poor man’s feet don’t feel a thorn so acutely; his feet are accustomed. A rich man’s feet feel it worse; his feet are unaccustomed. As a person grows richer, a sore, an ulcer begins to form in the heart; misery deepens.
The wise call you to dissolve; they say, “Know yourself,” because in knowing the self, you will dissolve. This sounds upside down, paradoxical. When we say “Know yourself,” it sounds as though you will save yourself.
The very condition of knowing the self is: as long as you are, you cannot know the self. You are the obstacle. The ego—the feeling “I am”—is the barrier. When it dissolves, self-knowing happens. The dissolution of the self is the knowledge of the self. And with it, the thorn disappears.
When Buddha attained awakening, his first proclamation was: now no one can ever put me into misery. There is no way to put me into suffering now. The story says Brahma asked him, “Why do you say that?” Buddha replied, “Because now I am no more. There is no way to put me into misery, because I am not. As long as I was, I could be put into suffering.”
Buddha liked the language of emptiness. If you prefer the language of fullness, understand it from that side. Prefer emptiness, understand it from that side. But do not be lost in language; do something. Either let the drop dissolve into the ocean, or invite the ocean into the drop. Until that great union happens, misery remains.
Still the wise say to you, “Know yourself.” Are they inviting you to be erased?
If it were only erasing, and nothing were gained, the invitation would never be given. From one side, there is disappearing; from the other side, there is being. That which you presently are will fall away, and your real being will remain. Your false, counterfeit “being” will vanish; your eternal substance, your timeless nature, will remain. You will be lost—as you now take yourself to be. And that which you have never known yourself to be, but which you truly are, will abide.
So the wise call you: dissolve, so that you may be. Lose yourself, so that you may be saved. They say: if the drop falls into the ocean, it is lost—if you look from the drop’s side. But where can it be lost? How can being be lost? If you look from the side of being, the drop is not lost; it becomes the ocean. On one side the drop’s smallness is gone; on the other, the ocean’s vastness pours in.
Kabir says: at first I thought that in union the drop fell into the ocean and was lost. That was the first experience—that the drop fell into the ocean and vanished. Later I understood it is the other way around: the ocean fell into the drop and disappeared.
Both statements mean the same. Whether you let a drop fall into the ocean, or the ocean fall into a drop, the same event occurs. Whether you say, “I was lost,” or you say, “The divine was lost in me,” it is the same thing—only two vantage points.
Buddha preferred the first: you will be lost, nirvana will happen, everything will be emptiness. Shankara preferred the second: you will become Brahman; nothing is lost, everything is gained.
Call it shunya (the void) or call it purna (the fullness). Shunya means the drop is gone; purna means the ocean has descended into the drop. Two ways of saying one truth: one via affirmation, the other via negation. Choose whichever is dear to you.
The wise invite you to dissolve because they have known from their own experience that as long as they did not dissolve, suffering remained. When they dissolved, bliss happened.
Your very “existence” as you know it is the thorn. You yourself are the thorn that pricks. And so long as you are, the thorn will go on pricking. You may make a thousand arrangements for happiness; they will fail—because the thorn is you. Prepare as pleasant a bed as you like, build as beautiful a house as you like—the thorn will prick.
Palaces grow larger; misery is not destroyed. Heaps of wealth pile up; misery is not destroyed. Prosperity, fame, renown accrue; misery is not destroyed—if anything, the thorn pricks harder. The more arrangements you make for pleasure, the deeper the thorn hurts. Pleasure creates a contrasting backdrop, and the thorn feels even more painful.
A poor man’s feet don’t feel a thorn so acutely; his feet are accustomed. A rich man’s feet feel it worse; his feet are unaccustomed. As a person grows richer, a sore, an ulcer begins to form in the heart; misery deepens.
The wise call you to dissolve; they say, “Know yourself,” because in knowing the self, you will dissolve. This sounds upside down, paradoxical. When we say “Know yourself,” it sounds as though you will save yourself.
The very condition of knowing the self is: as long as you are, you cannot know the self. You are the obstacle. The ego—the feeling “I am”—is the barrier. When it dissolves, self-knowing happens. The dissolution of the self is the knowledge of the self. And with it, the thorn disappears.
When Buddha attained awakening, his first proclamation was: now no one can ever put me into misery. There is no way to put me into suffering now. The story says Brahma asked him, “Why do you say that?” Buddha replied, “Because now I am no more. There is no way to put me into misery, because I am not. As long as I was, I could be put into suffering.”
Buddha liked the language of emptiness. If you prefer the language of fullness, understand it from that side. Prefer emptiness, understand it from that side. But do not be lost in language; do something. Either let the drop dissolve into the ocean, or invite the ocean into the drop. Until that great union happens, misery remains.
Osho's Commentary
Such men, possessed of hypocrisy, pride, and arrogance, clinging to desires that can never be satisfied, adopting false doctrines out of delusion, engage in corrupt conduct in the world.
And harboring endless anxieties that last till death, devoted to the enjoyment of sense-pleasures, they take that to be the only happiness there is.
Therefore, bound by the hundreds of nooses called hope, given over to lust and anger, they strive—by unjust means—to hoard wealth and many other objects for the fulfillment of their indulgences.
On the traits of those with demonic endowment, Krishna goes still deeper.
“Possessed of hypocrisy, pride, and arrogance...”
A person of demonic endowment always believes himself to be right and the other to be wrong. The other’s very “otherness” is his fault. It is not a question of what is right or wrong; for one endowed with demonic qualities, his own statement is right; the other’s is wrong.
Perhaps you’ve noticed: even when the other says exactly what you said yesterday, you still argue. Because the issue is not truth; the issue is that you must be right and the other must be wrong. You are always striving to prove that you are right.
In the endless disputes of the world there is no search for truth—only proclamations of ego. Whatever anyone may say, I am right. This is the inner hallmark of asuric endowment.
One of divine endowment, before calling another wrong, first tries to see where he himself might be wrong. That is why the one with divine qualities can learn; the demonic cannot. Learning is only possible if we can be wrong and the other can be right. If we are always right and the other always wrong, there is no room for learning. Discipleship cannot arise.
Therefore, a person of demonic endowment never becomes a disciple. He will say, “There is no true master.” “If we meet a true master, we will become disciples.” But he cannot be a disciple. He will find errors even in a Buddha and move on.
For discipleship, one must bow. One must feel, “I may be wrong; the other may be right.” “I am ignorant; the other may know.” One who has such a feeling can learn even from a child; he learns from plants and birds. For him, the whole world becomes the master.
But the person who thinks “I am right” has no way to learn in this world. He remains stuck, stagnant. His heart becomes like stone; it never blossoms like a flower.
Reflect: when you argue that something is right, are you really searching for truth? Or is it that your statement has become identified with your ego, and if the statement breaks, the ego will break? You can fight, quarrel, pile up arguments—but you will never change with those arguments, because they were never for truth.
A truth-seeker is always ready to be wrong. The more ready one is to admit one’s mistake, the greater the possibility of growth in life. He will keep learning to the very last breath. His learning has no end; his knowing has no shore.
The person of demonic endowment remains ignorant, because he cannot learn. The one with divine endowment goes on learning, and his knowing becomes oceanic.
“Clinging to desires that can never be satisfied...”
The demonic person runs his life on the support of desires that have no end, that cannot be fulfilled, that never have been fulfilled; their very nature is to be unfulfillable.
Buddha said: desires are insatiable; they cannot be filled. Not because your power is small, nor because life is short, nor because others obstruct you, but because their nature is insatiability. It cannot be otherwise.
Why? If you do not fulfill a desire, if you repress it, it will keep pushing, “Fulfill me!”—and will keep pushing through lifetimes. If you do fulfill it, then each fulfillment builds a habit; and as habit grows, demand increases.
A great dilemma: repress desire and it pursues you; fulfill desire and habit forms. In both situations, desire entangles. We rarely try the third way: simply to watch the desire—neither suppressing nor gratifying it; neither fighting it nor becoming its slave.
Two paths exist in the world. One is of indulgence: fulfill desires; such people are called “asuri,” of demonic endowment. Another is of fighting desires: repression; but they are not called people of divine endowment either—they too are asuric. The only difference is that some stand upright on their feet and some stand on their heads—doing a headstand.
There is a third category: the person of divine endowment. He does not fight; he is simply a witness to desire. And as witnessing deepens, desire burns out from the roots. There is no need to suppress it, and no need to fulfill it.
Difficulties exist in both indulgence and repression. These two paths stand before you, and you keep tottering between them. In the morning you think “wrong,” in the evening “right.” Today you think “let me satisfy desire”; tomorrow you fight and repress. So you sway, and life is wasted.
Our condition is like this. I have heard: a non-dualist sage came to a village. There was a simple poor farmer. The sage stopped him on his way to the fields and said, “Wait—will you spend your whole life in the fields? Remember: the world is maya.” The farmer said, “If you are teaching me, also give me a way.” The sage gave him the mantra soham: keep repeating soham, ‘I am That.’ After some days, the farmer kept chanting soham.
Then a dualist sage arrived. People told him, “There’s a simple farmer here who chants soham and is very cheerful.” The sage said, “Completely wrong. Bring him.” He told the farmer, “This is wrong. Soham is an Advaitin’s mantra. You’ll be misled. Correct it to dasoham—‘I am your servant.’ Add a ‘da.’” The farmer added ‘da.’
A few months later another non-dualist sage came. Hearing of the farmer, he said, “Wrong again. Duality should not enter the mantra. Instead of dasoham, add an ‘sa’: sada soham—‘Always I am That.’” The poor man said, “As you wish.”
What little peace he had found earlier, in the second mantra decreased; with the third he got utterly confused. Still, he began sada soham.
Soon another dualist came and said, “Wrong. Non-duality is itself wrong. Add another ‘da’: das dasoham—‘I am a servant, servant.’” The poor man said, “Now I will go mad. The little peace I had is gone. Where is the end of this?”
This is our condition: everything around is split into two camps. Some push you toward indulgence; others push you toward repression. Some are filled with life’s melancholy, saying, “Renounce it all.” Some are bursting with life’s gusto, saying, “Enjoy it all.” Between the two, man becomes deranged.
If you keep switching daily between the two, you create confusion, a fragmented mind, a schizophrenic state—where nothing seems clear: what is right, what is wrong; where to go, where not to go. One foot moves left, the other right; one goes forward, the other back. Life falls into chaos.
But we also have a difficulty: beyond these two, we don’t hear the third voice.
There is a third voice: the witnessing, aware seeing of the process of desire. Both the enjoyer and the renunciate are bound; only the witness is free.
The person filled with demonic endowment lives leaning on desires that can never be fulfilled; therefore he is always miserable. Walking with the unfulfillable, he will harvest misery: constant discontent, constant dissatisfaction, a constant feeling of “nothing has been gained—run more, run more.” Wherever he reaches, the voice of “more” continues.
“Out of delusion they adopt false doctrines and, given to corrupt conduct, they move in the world. Harboring endless anxieties until death, devoted to enjoyments, they hold that this alone is happiness.”
Whatever small scraps fall to them in this running—some fleeting glimmers of pleasure—they take them as the only happiness there is.
Reflect: you have lived so many years—at least this life you remember; leave aside the rest. Have you found any happiness? If you search honestly, you’ll find it hard to locate a single real happiness. Perhaps occasionally a glimpse, a mirage—like a rainbow in the distance. Try to grasp it, it disappears. From afar there seemed to be something; we carry our lives forward on that much.
A person of divine endowment is not satisfied so cheaply. People say the “divine” person is contented. I say: first, he is profoundly discontented—so much so that even the demonic appear content by comparison. The demonic says, “This is all the happiness there is,” and settles. The divine says, “There is no happiness here at all. It is a rainbow in the distance; in the hand, there is only water. Nothing is here.” So the demonic manages to find a little satisfaction even in dissatisfaction; the divine finds complete dissatisfaction in it. And because of this dissatisfaction, he sets out toward a new dimension, a new horizon. Seeing there is nothing in desire—only false glimmers—his journey begins beyond desire, into desirelessness.
First, the person of divine endowment becomes utterly dissatisfied with the world; this is the basis of his search for the divine. But the demonic says, “All right—this little happiness is all there is. There is nothing more worth having, and nothing more can be had.”
Many come to me and say, “We are content,” thinking they are saying something precious. “Whatever God has given, we are satisfied.” What has God given them? They say, “Everything is fine: a wife, a child, work is fine, enough money for daily bread; we are content.” They expect me to praise them as religious. But this is a mark of demonic endowment: “This much happiness is enough; there is nothing more.”
A person of divine endowment looks at life with piercing eyes and becomes wholly dissatisfied. If this is life, he is ready to die right now: there is no substance in it. And the moment he truly sees this, the relish of his eyes is withdrawn from this world; his eyes become free. He becomes capable of stretching them toward the other world. Attention, which was entangled here, returns, and can be directed beyond. Only a fully dissatisfied consciousness can discover the supreme satisfaction of the divine.
“Therefore, bound by the hundreds of snares of hope, and given over to lust and anger, they strive—by unjust means—to amass wealth and many other things for the fulfillment of their indulgences.”
Whoever does not seek himself will, knowingly or unknowingly, seek objects. Seek you must; the energy of life is inherently a search. If you don’t seek inwardly, you will seek something outwardly. And for the one who does not seek himself, nothing remains but the search for things.
There are only two dimensions in this world: either search for consciousness, or search for matter. If you are not searching for consciousness, what will you do? You will collect matter: hoard wealth, climb to high positions, build empires.
Such a person then engages in accumulation. And accumulation has its basic rules.
First: whoever is bent on hoarding cannot think in terms of justice. Matter belongs to no one. The land you call yours today belonged to someone else yesterday, and to someone else the day before. If you sit and reflect, “How can I lay claim to what is not mine?” you cannot accumulate.
Therefore, the accumulator resorts to any means whatsoever. And to accumulate matter, you must seize from others. Possessiveness is impossible without exploitation. To hoard, you must deprive others. To hoard, you must practice violence—gross or subtle. To hoard, you must protect yourself from charity, compassion, and kindness. You may have to steal; you may have to beg; you will do whatever is needed.
Once at a station, waiting for a delayed train, a beggar approached me. His face looked educated and cultured. I asked him to sit and tell me about himself. He was pleased. I had a book in my hand. He said, “You’re reading; I can talk to you. I too was once a writer; I wrote a book.” I asked, “Which book?” He said, “Twenty Ways to Earn a Living.” I was startled: “And yet you are begging!” He said, “Yes—because this is the twenty-first way I discovered later. If the twenty fail, the twenty-first never fails. It’s a sure shot.”
A thief snatches what belongs to others; a beggar also snatches—it’s a more artful method. He entangles the other so that if you don’t give, you feel guilty; if you give, you feel pain. Don’t imagine that when a beggar gets your coin he thinks you are generous; he thinks he was clever and you were a fool. If you give nothing and escape, then he respects your skill. In his eyes you are respectable only when you don’t give. If you give, he thinks, “All right then.” But he creates a situation in which, to avoid the awkwardness, you find it easier to hand over two coins.
The thief snatches; the beggar snatches; the businessman—who is between them—also snatches. All hunger for one thing: piles of wealth.
No matter how great the heap, in the end it becomes your grave. In the end, its only use is to bury you.
Understand this law: life-energy cannot exist without searching. If you are not searching inwardly, you will search outwardly. The outer search stops only when the inner begins. As soon as consciousness turns inward, the outer search drops of its own accord—because a greater treasure has begun to be found; because the real wealth arrives; because you yourself will laugh: “What childish games was I playing!”
Money is no more than a children’s game. We don’t notice it because old people play it too—and old people are nothing but grown children. Merely an aged body has little value; the mind remains childish.
Children collect stamps, butterflies, pebbles. Old people laugh at their madness. But what difference is there between a postage stamp and a thousand-rupee note? Both are products of the printing press. Their value is only a social stamp.
Children collect cigarette labels; the old collect banknotes. No real difference. The old hoarder is old only in body; within, he is juvenile, child-minded.
The demonic never loses his child-mind. He dies with a child’s mind. On his deathbed he still worries about possessions. The wise soon free themselves from the futile race for matter and set out in search of the divine.
The search for matter is outward; the search for the divine is inward. The search for matter is by exploiting others; the search for the divine is by refining oneself. In the search for matter, others are exploited; in the search for the divine, the soul is disciplined.
There are only two searches. And note: if someone thinks, “I will pursue both together,” he is mistaken. This does not mean you must run away from the world to seek the divine. Nor does it mean that if you seek the divine you must become poor and beggarly. It means this: as one seeks the divine, one’s grip on matter loosens. Even if matter lies around him, he does not clutch it. If it is snatched, he does not beat his chest. If it is there, fine; if not, fine. It is not his goal. And if for the inner search everything must be left, he is ready. If all is lost for the inner, he is willing. He is always eager to stake the entire outer for the inner—waiting for the moment when he will lose everything and save himself.
Jesus said: whoever would save himself must be ready to lose everything; and whoever is eager to save everything should remember—everything may be saved, but the self will be lost.
In the world there is a bargain: either you save things by selling yourself—whatever you earn, you earn by selling bits of your soul. The safe fills; the soul empties. One day the safe remains; you are gone. This is the poverty of the rich, their inner beggary.
I have heard: one morning a beggar went to Andrew Carnegie, the American billionaire, making a great commotion. Carnegie himself came out: “Why such noise? If you want alms, come at the proper time. The sun isn’t even up; I was sleeping.”
The beggar said, “Wait. Would you like advice about your business?” Carnegie said, “Not at all. What advice can you give? You have no experience.” The beggar said, “Then you also should not give me advice. You have no experience in my business. Until we make a fuss, does anyone give? If I came at the proper time, I’d never reach you—secretaries and guards would stop me. Coming at the wrong time, I met you directly. Don’t advise me; this is my ancestral trade—my forefathers did it.”
Carnegie writes in his memoirs: I was amused. I asked, “What do you want?” The man said, “I never take anything for free. I’m no beggar. But I can do something you cannot—if you want to wager.” Carnegie writes: I was intrigued: what can he do that I cannot? I said, “All right, a hundred dollars on it. What is it?” He said, “I can get a certificate that I’m a beggar; you cannot get a certificate that you aren’t.” Carnegie writes: I gave him a hundred dollars, and then kept thinking: whether or not I can get a certificate, a beggar is what I am. I have billions—so what? Begging goes on, asking goes on, searching goes on. No one will give me a certificate, because if I am a beggar, then no rich man exists in this world.
Carnegie left ten billion dollars when he died. But he wrote: a beggar I am—the man was right. Because desire is still there, craving is still there. My begging bowl is still in my hand. If I could get something more, I would trade everything to get it; I would spend myself further.
Two days before he died, Carnegie asked the man writing his biography: “If God gave you the chance, would you prefer to be Andrew Carnegie’s secretary writing his life, or to be Andrew Carnegie while he writes yours?” The secretary said, “Forgive me; don’t take offense—I would never prefer to be Andrew Carnegie. I’m fine writing your life.” Carnegie asked, “Why?” He said, “I arrive at eleven and leave at five. Your clerks come at ten, leave at five. The peon comes at nine, leaves at five. I see you at your desk from seven in the morning till eleven at night. Your condition is worse than the peon’s. May God never make me Andrew Carnegie. I don’t want to be you.”
Carnegie was right: I am a beggar too.
Even after gaining everything, if the soul is not found, beggary remains. If all is lost and the soul remains, for the first time the inner emperor is experienced.
That’s all for today.