Jo Bole To Hari Katha #4

Just ask your mahatmas whether giving up wealth has brought them meditation. I have asked. And one of your mahatmas couldn’t answer. I tried on the mahatmas all the tricks they use on you—and I was amazed. I don’t know why you haven’t tried those tricks on them till now!
They ask you, “Has food given you eternal bliss?” You ask them, “Has fasting given you eternal bliss?” At least with food you are healthy! At least the body has strength! At least you can get up and sit down!

In the West there is an abundance of food, so people live longer. Today in Russia there are thousands of people a hundred and fifty years old—thousands, not just a few. If someone reaches a hundred and fifty in Russia, it doesn’t even make the newspaper. A report appeared only when a man reached two hundred. There are many at one hundred and fifty.

And here, among you? If someone reaches a hundred, we say, “He’s from the age of truth—Satya Yuga! What a marvel of a man! He made it to a hundred!”

Mahatma Gandhi thought he should live one hundred and twenty-five years. It was the kindness of the people of Poona that they didn’t let him! Nathuram Godse finished him off early: “Why be troubled for so long?” He freed him from life quickly—granted him liberation from the ocean of becoming!

The people of Poona are amazing! They grant liberation from the ocean of becoming! A gentleman was arranging my liberation from the ocean of becoming just a few days ago—by throwing a knife! What kinds of “social workers” we have! Even when I don’t want to get free of the ocean of becoming, they try to free me! They freed Gandhi—rightly so; he wanted to be freed. I am swimming quite joyfully in the ocean of becoming! But look at their plight—poor fellows, how much trouble they take! Now a mess will fall on them: a case will run for seven years, ten years; they’ll suffer punishment. They had come to serve!

This world is nasty. Do good, and evil lands in your hand! What an amazing world! You go to do good, and bad happens! They had come, poor fellows, to serve me; now I worry that they may have to do ten years’ service in a jail somewhere! My concern is only that this poor man’s ten years shouldn’t be spoiled!

Gandhi’s intent to live one hundred and twenty-five years—he thought that was the ultimate idea. Who could live more than that! And his belief was that he would live one hundred and twenty-five years—by the power of his fasting and his celibacy. It turned out well—bless Nathuram! Consider him a form of Ram—Nathu-Ram! That’s why when the bullet hit, Gandhi said, “Hey Ram!” There wasn’t enough time to say “Nathu-Ram,” otherwise he would have said the full name! So, by English accounting, he uttered only the last part: “Hey Ram!” The full name was “Nathuram!”

Consider him a form of Ram—he came and granted release!

But if Gandhi had had to die on his own—and he would have had to—and to live one hundred and twenty-five years, I don’t think he could have. India’s food system is not healthy enough to make one hundred and twenty-five easy here.

Had he died earlier, he would have died very unhappy. Nathuram saved him from that sorrow. He would have died thinking, “There was a deficiency in my austerity!” He used to see any small thing and conclude, “There was a lapse in my austerity!” As if austerity has anything to do with lifespan! Austerity has nothing to do with lifespan.

Shankaracharya died at thirty-three. If there is a connection with austerity, then obviously his austerity was faulty! And Vivekananda died at thirty-four. If there is a connection, then obviously the austerity was faulty. There is no connection.

Today, in European countries the average lifespan is eighty, eighty-five, ninety years. Sweden’s average is ninety. India’s average right now is thirty-six! So if in Sweden you find a man of one hundred and fifty, what’s the obstacle! In India too you find a man of ninety—even when the average is thirty-six.

These ambitions of ours… The body will perish—whether in a hundred years or one hundred and fifty. Scientists say a human could live three hundred years—at least—if the complete arrangement were provided. But even if someone lives three hundred years, he will still perish, he will still go. Whatever is born will go. If from this you are desiring the eternal, then the mistake is yours. From this, ask only what it can give. If you ask more than it can give, you won’t get it, and then your sadhus and mahatmas say, “See? You didn’t get it! We told you—renounce!” I consider their reasoning wrong. I say to you: you asked for too much—that was your mistake. Don’t ask too much. Ask for what can be given. And for what cannot be gotten from this, find other paths. By abandoning this, that won’t be obtained.

Neither by clutching wealth and enjoying it do you get meditation, nor by renouncing it do you get meditation.

I know monks who left home seventy years ago; they are ninety now. I asked them, “Did meditation happen or not?” They say, “Not yet! What to do? How to meditate? The mind still functions! The mind is still full of thoughts!”

So I said: at least one thing has become clear to you—that by leaving house and home, the mind does not drop! What has the mind to do with house and home! The process of dropping the mind is different. The method is different; the science is different. Therefore I tell my sannyasins: understand the science of life.

To keep the body healthy—food. But food will not make you spiritual. Yes, to keep the soul healthy, you will need another kind of nourishment—meditation, love, silence, emptiness—then your soul will be healthy. And both should be healthy. There is no contradiction that in a healthy body a healthy soul cannot be; that if you eat rightly, meditation cannot happen. I say exactly the opposite.

Only if you eat rightly will you be able to meditate; otherwise you won’t. “Hungry, bhajan does not happen, O Gopala!” So try singing hymns when you’re hungry! On the surface a hymn will come out, inside the hunger will go on! Inside the mind will keep thinking, “When will food come? When will this hymn end?” You are singing the hymn only so that you can get food!

But when the stomach is full, then naturally, easily, devotion can be enjoyed; meditation can be enjoyed.

Life has a sequential order. First the needs of the body should be fulfilled. Then the needs of the mind should be fulfilled. Then the needs of the soul should be fulfilled. When a harmony is created among the needs of all three, then “Raso vai sah!” Then the fourth, turiya, arises. Then you will know what that essence is; what that bliss is; what that sky is.

“If that sky-like, all-pervading, blissful element were not, who would live? And who would endeavor to breathe? In truth, that very element is the primal source of everyone’s joy.”

Love life; live life—totally, wholly. No escapism, no fear; because life is synonymous with the divine. Life itself is that rasa.

Chintamani Pathak! First thing: have you come here concerned for yourself, or to worry about everyone? Have you taken on the contract of worrying for the whole world? Who are you to fret about them? First you attain—then talk!

And you don’t ask whether classical music is for everyone or not! You don’t ask whether Shakespeare’s plays, Kalidasa’s treatises, Bhavabhuti’s creations, or Rabindranath’s songs are for everyone! You never say, “Why don’t we produce a cheap Kalidasa? Something universally accessible!” Why this insistence only when it comes to religion?

People have come to think religion should be a two-penny thing—cheap and for all. But religion is the costliest thing in life, the most precious. It is life’s highest peak. Even people like Kalidasa, Bhavabhuti, Rabindranath, Shakespeare, Milton reach there only with difficulty. Even Einstein, Newton, Eddington struggle to reach. Leave aside the common crowd. Only a Buddha, a Mahavira, a Krishna, a Jesus—countable on the fingers—have reached. What can I do? The rule is: that is the eternal law!

Religion is the supreme summit. It demands talent—keen, blazing talent—because it is the discovery of life’s ultimate essence.

Your question is worth thinking about. If we take it in the context of the first question, it will be easier to understand.

You say: “You say: immerse in dance, celebrate, sing—this is religion.”

Certainly, this is religion. And if you cannot dissolve into dance, cannot sing, cannot celebrate—then what will you do?

You say: “Where is the leisure for that?”

But there is leisure to smoke a chillum! There is time to play cards! And in the rains to spread out a chaupar board and sit! There is time to sing ballads of Alha-Udal! What bumpkins are you talking about here? The same bumpkins sit in villages reading the Hanuman Chalisa! There’s time to worship Hanumanji! But no time to sing! No time to dance! There’s time for mischief! If it’s a Hindu-Muslim riot—plenty of time! If it’s to commit rape—time is there! To burn the huts of Harijans—time is there! To contest elections—time is there!

Even the dead arrive to vote, riding on people’s shoulders! The blind, the lame, the crippled—elections fascinate them! But if you say: “Celebrate!”—then Chintamani Pathak gets terribly anxious!

You say: “People don’t have leisure; they are suffering the curse of poverty.”

Who is responsible? If they are suffering, they themselves are responsible. And people like you are responsible, who go on looking for ways to safeguard their poverty. Why are they suffering the curse of poverty?

For five thousand years what have you been doing? America became prosperous in three hundred years. Just three hundred years of history—and it reached the peak of the world! What are you doing? But you have time to read the Ramcharitmanas! Every year to stage the Ramlila! The same village goons become Rama—and you touch their feet! And some village idiot becomes Sita—while you know who he is! He’s standing there with his mustache shaved off! And you go on “Sita Maiyya, Sita Maiyya!” You have time for all this!

I don’t see that you lack leisure. I know villages. I was born in one. Villagers have so much free time they don’t know how to kill it. They have time to waste in every possible way. But they are lazy; they are dishonest.

And your mahatmas have taught you dishonesty and laziness. They taught you: “What is there to do? God watches over all! When it is His will, He will tear open the roof and give!” I’ve never seen anyone receive a gift through a roof torn open. And if He does, sit carefully; your skull might split! The roof might collapse on you!

You say: “There is no time.”

What exactly are villagers doing twenty-four hours a day? There is leisure for every kind of melee and fracas! Time to sit through a Satyanarayana katha! If it’s time to wield sticks—they’re instantly ready! If there’s a wrestling meet on Nag Panchami—ready for the brawl! If it’s time to worship a snake—ready!

Another gentleman has asked: “My faith is in Sanatan Dharma. I have unshakable devotion to Bajrangbali Mahavir. Your words interest me, but they don’t match with our Sanatan Dharma. Will you kindly tell me what deficiency is in me?”
Name: Khilinda Ram Chaudhary. President, Mahavir Seva Dal, Panipat.

He has time for all this! Khilinda Ram has time to play all sorts of games! He is president of the Mahavir Seva Dal—time for that! Time to serve Bajrangbali!

But if someone speaks a true word to you, it doesn’t fit your Sanatan Dharma! Then let it not fit! Your Sanatan Dharma must be wrong. I don’t care whether it fits your Sanatan Dharma or not.

I am speaking my truth. If it matches, your Sanatan Dharma is fortunate. If it doesn’t—your problem. I have taken no contract to make my words match your religions. Whose religion should I match? There are three hundred religions on this earth. If I spend my time matching all of them, I will lose my own harmony!

Whose harmony to match! All kinds of fools are about! Everyone with their own notions! And your unshakable faith is in Bajrangbali! Are you a man—or what? And you’re asking what deficiency you have! Ask Bajrangbali himself. He must be laughing: “Look at this fool! Khilinda Ram! Ram by name—and serving Bajrangbali!”

These days even Bajrangbali are not serving Ram. They’ve got a better-paying role in another Ramlila!

The country is full of people like this. You call the dead inertia of ages “Sanatan Dharma!” You call every kind of blind belief “Sanatan Dharma!” And when you have no experience, how did you come by “unshakable faith”? And if your faith is unshakable, why have you come here? To have it broken? Bajrangbali are readily available in Panipat. Drink water yourself, offer it to him. Why have you come here? To get your faith broken?

And don’t take an interest in my words. They are dangerous. With them your tie to Bajrangbali will snap. This “unshakable faith” and suchlike—there is nothing there. It is “unshakable” only when it does not exist.

You say, “My faith is in Sanatan Dharma.”

How is your faith? On what basis? It is a mere accident that you were born in a Hindu home. Had they placed you in a Muslim home in your childhood, your “unshakable faith” would have been in Islam—you would be cutting Hindus’ throats. Then you would finish off the likes of this Mahavir Seva Dal. You would raise another flag: “Islam is in danger!” And had you been born in a Christian home, you would create your mischief there.

How is your faith? On what basis? Only that your parents taught you: “There is Hanumanji! This is not a stone idol. Serve him. Don’t offend him. Read the Hanuman Chalisa. Son, he will give great boons. He is very simple-hearted. Easy to persuade. He will do whatever you want!”

Behind precisely this madness the country is poor. If all this labor were employed to make the country prosperous, India has an immensely rich earth. And after five thousand years we should have had experience. We should be at the peak of the world. But on one side blind belief, on the other your mahatmas saying: “Renounce everything; abandon everything; leave materiality!” If you are not poor—what else will you be!

And then, having remained poor, you raise questions as if I am responsible. I am not. You are responsible for your poverty. Even now your poverty can be broken. But if anyone tries to break it, you will kill him. You have become attached to your poverty!

What is the reason for the opposition to me? I say India must lay its roots in materiality, because only the country whose roots are in matter can blossom with flowers of spirituality on its summit. That is why I am opposed.

Therefore your culture is “in danger” because of me! Your religion “in danger!” You must protect it!

You ask: “Is this possible for the whole society?”

First, religion has nothing to do with society. It concerns the individual. Did you ask Krishna, “O Sir! This Gita you’re teaching Arjuna—can the whole society do it?” Did you ask Mahavira whether it was possible for the whole society to be naked? If the whole society leaves wives and runs off, how will future Mahaviras be born? “Sir, at least tell us a method by which future Tirthankaras will be born! By what magic spell?” Did you ask Buddha whether this is possible for the whole society? Whom did you ask? You ask me!

Religion has never been about society. It is about the individual. Society has no soul. Society is only an empty word. Have you ever met a “society”? If I tell you, “Go, meet society,” whom will you meet? You will always meet an individual. But words deceive.

Religion is a personal affair. It is an individual revolution. Each person must decide for himself. I speak to individuals—not to societies. I don’t even believe in society. My trust is in the individual. The individual is real; society is only a label.

So I have nothing to do with “the whole society.” At most, I will carry the news as far as I can to as many individuals as possible. Those who have the courage to dance will dance. Those who have the courage to sing will sing. Of course, before that they will have to drop many things.

Some are addicted to crying! Unless they weep, their mind finds no peace! For them there is no place with me.

And you say: “Is your laughing, singing, dancing religion only for a handful?”

It is for whoever understands. They may be a handful—or as vast as the sky. But at least you understand, sir, Chintamani Pathak! At least use some intelligence! Now that you have come this far, stop worrying about others. Worry about yourself—that is enough!

If your lamp is lit, perhaps you can help light someone else’s.

Now you ask about “those who have somehow amassed wealth and are already enjoying every kind of comfort.”

I see jealousy in your mind. Jealousy is always a sign of fools.

What do you want—that they too be beggars? That would feel great to you! Even the fact that a few people eat and drink well gives you no peace! In this country, perhaps two percent eat well. The ninety-eight percent give you no peace, no solace! You want even the two percent stripped. That is exactly the urge of the so-called socialists: “Distribute theirs too.” Distribute the two percent who appear to live well—and poverty will increase further.

Make a hundred percent poor—and then the flute of peace will play! Everyone equal—good! If all stand naked, your worry ends! That one man wearing clothes—your hands itch to snatch them off! Your mind is filled with envy that someone “somehow” collected wealth. Who stopped you?

And wealth is not collected “somehow.” It too requires intelligence. Fools can’t do it. But fools, to defend their foolishness, invent strategies. They think: “We are simple, straightforward, religious people, that’s why we can’t accumulate wealth. The dishonest collect it!” Even dishonesty requires a little intelligence! And honesty requires great intelligence.

To gather the riches of religion honestly requires supreme intelligence. I am not on the side of fools. And I do not consider foolishness to be honesty. I do not consider the timid and the cowardly to be honest.

Drop envy. Get to work. You too can create wealth. Wealth has to be created. The whole country can be wealthy. The whole earth can be wealthy. But wrong notions are obstructing us!

And I tell you: those who are enjoying comforts are the very ones who can understand the meaning of religion. Ram was not born in a beggar’s house. His father, Dasharatha, must have “somehow” collected wealth! Where did wealth come from? Buddha was not born to a poor family. Nor was Mahavira. All twenty-four Jaina Tirthankaras were sons of kings. So by your logic, this wealth must have been gathered by “dishonest men”! And in the homes of these “dishonest men” the Tirthankaras were born!

Krishna too was not the son of a poor man. All your avatars were born in the houses of the “dishonest,” by your reckoning! The avatars felt no shame! They should drown themselves in a handful of water! They should have been born among the naked, the beggars—lepers, the lame, the crippled! They should have chosen a proper place—the house of “Daridra Narayan!” But not even one was born in the house of “Daridra Narayan!” Not one avatar, not one Buddha, not one Tirthankara. Why?

The reason is clear. The arithmetic is clear. Those who have every kind of abundance—only in their lives do great questions arise, vast questions. Those who have wealth can see: wealth did not bring joy, did not bring peace—now what?

Those who do not have wealth think: once we have wealth, we will have everything.

I want everyone to be wealthy, so that each person can understand that wealth has a limit—and beyond that limit there is much more. But that understanding comes only if one has wealth. Otherwise it does not come.

What can I do! Your past is rotten. I am not responsible for it. I can change your future—if you listen!

But you are not ready to listen! You are ready to cut off my head! Then your future will be as rotten as your past—more rotten. Because the rot is becoming old—deeper and deeper.

But I will tell you this much: religion cannot be “universally accessible.” You must work to rise to religion’s height. Religion will not descend to your lowliness. If you want to go toward the sun, you will have to spread your wings. Don’t expect the sun to come to your house and knock at your door: “Brother Chintamani Pathak, wake up; I am the sun; I have come to bring light to your home!” Don’t entertain such hopes. Leave aside the sun—even the man from the electricity office won’t come! There too you will go and bribe, and then perhaps a bulb will be installed in your home. How will the sun come! And if it does, you will be reduced to ash.

You will have to fly. To reach the heights of truth, to climb the peaks, you must labor.

Religion cannot be universally accessible. Those who want religion must prepare. They must gather the courage for effort and practice. That is what I call sannyas.

That’s all for today.